Six months ago, pastor Terry Jones, he of the famous Yosemite Sam-esque facial hair, raised an international stink for his plans to burn a copy of the Koran in Gainesville, Florida. Yesterday, one of Jones’ pals finished the job for him. Sunday’s scriptural barbecue in Gainesville was a solemn, high-toned event, attended by sophisticates from all parts of the, er, preacher’s neighborhood. Pastor Wayne Sapp, with Terry Jones supervising, oversaw a “trial” of the Koran in a small church. The Muslim holy book was found “guilty” of “crimes,” and then burned. The verdict was apparently not in doubt, as this particular copy of the Koran soaked in big jar of kerosene during the “trial.” After the verdict was announced, Sapp put the book in a metal tray in the center of the church, then fired it up with a barbecue lighter. The event was open to the general public; 30 people showed up. Jones said it was “a once-in-a-lifetime experience.”
This article appears in Mar 15-21, 2011.
Dear Mr. Grooms,
Thanks for the publicity and for spelling our names correctly, sucker.
Sincerely,
Terry Jones & Wayne Sapp
PATHETIC IDIOTS… THESE ARE THE CLASSIC EXAMPLES OF SCUMBAGS… I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOU TWO IDIOTS…
The “Christian Right” is neither.
Please get their names correct cause these two are only interested in publicity as they stated.What kind of pastor language is sucker? Sad really that these two stoop to a level to even acknowledge a book.I mean for years Christians have been fighting Satan so tell me when why you wouldn’t burn the Satanic bible years ago? Clearly, you are only interested in what is going on now in the news!!
This act reminds me of what the Trinitarians did to the property and people that didn’t believe as they did. Despicable!
Are you aware of UN personal
being killed because of your burning of the Koran? Who will be guilty of the death of these
persons?
Who thinks that this burning is in
the spirit of the Bible?
K.A.
Jesus teaches forgiveness and loving thy enemy. How can these two consider themselves Christians?
thx to Waynes burning at least 3 innocent UN-employees were killed today i Mazar in Afghanistan. Think of the consequences before you burn stuff moron
congratulations you socalled pastors!
You now have innocent blood on your hands, I hope you will be reminded of it for the rest of your lifes.
These idiots might call themselves “anti-Muslim,” but they’re just as much “anti-Christian.” Why doesn’t the press call them that?!
I am a Christian and I utterly condemn this action. A Christian’s sole responsibility is preach the Gospel for the salvation of mankind, Mathew 28:18-20. Where does this act fit in accomplishing this Great Commission. Christians are to promote Christ not ourselves. How will these pastors feel if this action triggers mass persecution of Christians in largely Islamic countries?
The actions of these “pastors” (and I use the term loosely) has directly led to the death of at least 8 UN workers by those they were there to help. If there is a hell, both of you will spend eternity there with those that killed these people. With these actions, I hope these men’s “church” is put on the list of hate groups/domestic terrorists and loses it’s tax-exempt status.
As a result 8 UN workers were killed by angry mobs in Afghanistan today.
The Christian Taliban is no better than the extremist they criticize.
I am getting sick and tired of the Christian Right trying to impose their religious views on the rest of Americans.
From abortion, to sex, to science, to medicine, the Christian right is not content to just practice what THEY believe. They want to force the rest of the country to their twisted way of thinking.
It’s time American’s stand up against these intolerant ignorant bigots and take our country back.
What stupid, stupid gutless men are these two. Shame on you. No true Christian would do what you have done
On what basis does any one decide a particular action/religion/culture/ideology/creed is guilty of a crime, let alone how can you pass a judgment on a book?
Mr. Jones and Mr. Sapp, I would like to ask you to present your arguments on why do you think Quran is guilty? Lets have an educated debate.
Wayne Sapp!
Burning other religion holy book is what little boys do. Every man has right own religion but also duty to respect others.
Harri Lind
Finland
Now you are resposibel for killing.
We in Europa meanS that terrorist like you must be stopped.
You are no better than…………..
the worst.
Why has no one noticed or condemned the actions of the muslims who killed UN workers that were totally uninvolved in the koran burning? This whole things goes to show what a bunch of idiots there are on all sides. The “trial” of a koran was a waste of everyone’s time, and the rioters reacting to such a stupid act by murdering uninvolved people indicates the true nature of the islamic lunacy.
The Afghans who killed the UN workers are uneducated, illiterate people whose only contact with the outside world is through the armed forces present. You cannot expect anything less, and should be considered predictable behavior.
As for Wayne Sapp and Terry Jones, you should hold a higher standard as they both can read, write and come from furnished homes with access to information.
They are able to assess the consequences of their actions and act accordingly.
Wayne & Terry, if you read this: I dare you to go to Afghanistan and burn the Koran.
It’s a bit too easy and comfortable to do it in the safety of Florida and let someone else deal with the consequences.
…or are you tough from far away, but far away from tough?
…hmmm….
..I’m amazed…
That it’s possible to do such things….a disgrace…..
But they should be hold responsible for the terror…fear..And loss of human lives that may follow this act….
They are NOT..I hope…. a representative stand for the proud US citizens….
Thank you in advance…
i far as i can see it the bible and the koran are evil and 2 of them should be burned.how patheic is that just because someone burns a book people then get killed.we should clear this world of all religions and the crap attached to them.The day will come when there will be no riligons butone unniversal religion of common sense and repecting each other as living beings.one planet,one people all going forward together.
Dear Pastor Wayne Sapp. You idiotic cunt. Eight innocent people died today because of you…you fucking moron.
The only way to respond to people like this is to laugh in their faces and let them carry on.
Clearly they are simple as the Koran is essentially the same as the Old Testament in content just with the names changed in some cases. They are all entirely man-made fairy stories anyway – HOWEVER – every person has the right to believe in what they wish but imposing those beliefs on others is abhorrent (happens with all religion).
Mr.Jones/Mr.Sapp – you carry on in your own little world of crazy but leave everyone else out of it. Either that or try and get laid – it makes trivial things seem much less important!
A new Law is needed….
“.. You should be kind and nice to others …. and the rest you can do what you want …
This is “Cardamom Act”Kardemomme loven .. from the author of Cardamom Town( Kardemomme By) ..
author Thorbjørn Egener
Nuff said..
😉
Morten J
Hi Again….
I made an error….
Here is the correct translation ;
Law of Cardemon (Norwegian: Kardemommeloven) is the only law in Cardemom Town. The law is simple and liberal:
You should not bother others,
you should be nice and kind,
otherwise you can do as you please…….
😉
Let’s be clear about this. Burning some sheets of paper does not equate to taking the lives of several innocent people. Not even close. Not even in the same moral universe. Performances like this are important and essential until people in the west recognise the motivations of those who actually practice the incitement of hatred and murder are what is at fault here. If we daren’t burn a book in case people are murdered – what next? If we accept this grotesque equation then soon we won’t be able to voice a word of criticism of these Islamic psychopaths. If you value freedom of speech or the rights of women and gay people this should be an alarm call to speak out – we can burn any book we like, it’s only paper, we can draw any cartoon we like and we can ridicule the absurdities of these extremists as much as we like. If we bow to intimdation from these Islamic fascists as many people here seem to want then we betray our heritage and the sacrifice of our parents and grandparents in the last century. Get a grip folks.
And Jesus said, “Whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me.” He didn’t only mean that when you disrespect others, you disrespect Jesus & God. He also meant that disrespecting others means deep down, you disrespect yourselves as well.
It’s not just about “what’s out there”. It’s also about what’s inside, and you two have just illustrated great hatred for yourselves, that you would actually burn the Quran like little children. You apparently have learned nothing from all your years studying the Bible.
You should be ashamed, and I hope your parishoners DO NOT STAND WITH YOU on this.
Iain M
Ignorance to the entire culture, labeling brainwashed people who can either write or read, being handfed propaganda thei entire lifes, they are about as psycotic as… oh wait, I forgot, did we talk about afghani or american? its all to darned similiar….
Whatever you believe about the Quran you have a responsibility to show respect to other religions because you expect it for yours and you have a responsibility to think about the effect your actions have on others. In both you have failed and demonstrated a selfishness your religion and God would be ashamed of. You represent the unthinking, blind stupid side of prespeterianism, shame on you, you should be carrying the deaths of innocent helpers on your conciences.
I hear what you say Stranger, and of course the mirror-image attitudes are to be found in the West – maybe indeed we need look no further than Jones and Sapp themselves.
However, even if I accept your patronizing view that the people actually committing these murders are brainwashed and ignorant, this excuse cannot apply to the mullahs and Taliban who incite them, let alone their apologists here – they are hateful and murderous through their own choice.
The fact is, I don’t know the world view of Jones and Sapp, very probably if I did I would find it utterly despicable, but they have the right to express their views in any legal way. The fact that it is so violently opposed is sufficient reason that people who value freedom should rush to their defense.
If you don’t stand up for the rights of people you disagree with to be heard then you will eventually wind up with people like Mullah Omar controlling your life, and you will deserve it.
The act of desecrating the holy book by Wayne Sapp and Terry Jones is only directed to incite passions of the Muslims.
It is true that there is freedom of speech but there is a limit to this freedom. If you go on defaming in the name of freedom of speech then there should not be any term of like defamation in the legal terminology which is punishable by fine or imprisonment if found guilty.
This desecration is like death sentence to the devout faithfuls of Afghanistan who treat their religion and holy book in high esteem and even more than their lives.
So the so-called educated pastors should have the cognizance of their act and its repercussions.
@ Jeff, I agree that what these pastors have done are very contrary to what Christianity says. The the media would never call them “anti-Christian”.
Just how some individuals carrying out terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are called “Muslim-terrorists” by the media when like you said in regard to the pastors, these individuals can be called anti-Muslims themselves as these are contradicting basic fundamentals of Islam.
These two men should be ashamed of themselves- disgusting. Why don’t they enlighten themselves on what the Qur’an really says and teaches? I can guarantee they haven’t even read it before…
@Iain M:
– If I burn toilet paper nobody will care.
– If I burn the Koran I know that somewhere some people will cause a huge mess and lives most likely will be lost, as a direct consequence of that action.
You can argue as much as you like if those people *should* get angry, but reality is that they will be angry.
…and reality is that the burning of the Koran is the main pre-condition of the killing of those people.
I know that it is difficult for people with a limited cognitive architecture to grasp the difference between the normative world of “should” and “shouldn’t” and the real world where things really happen.
Even more difficult for lesser developed primates is the ability to understand that even if you yourself didn’t pull the trigger, your actions caused the deaths.
A book is a book and murder is murder.
We are all responsible for our actions and blaming the burning of a particular book or 1000 books is simply an insane excuse for murder.
Burn 1001 of these books! Perhaps if they were all burned there would be some hope of sanity returning to these poor misguided people.
Well clearly deLeon I have to accept your free-speech right to decry the limitations of my cognitive architecture 🙂
Your reasoning seems to be, if extremists in the Islamic community effectively say “if you burn our book or lampoon our prophet, then we will murder some innocent hostages somewhere at random out in the world”, our reaction should be – “oh fine, we will shut up then, or these deaths will be on our hands”.
People have said Jones and Sapp were doing this in safety – suppose they weren’t, suppose they were murdered for their sacrilege – would you say they had it coming, you should expect to be killed if you say something offensive to someone?
Now it doesn’t actually matter what the Quran/Koran actually says, what matters in practice is that the same people inciting the murders in Afghanistan are telling us it teaches that women should be uneducated secluded domestic slaves, that gays should be stoned to death, that blasphemers and apostates should be executed, and that the lives of unbelievers are worthless.
I happen to disagree with all of that – these people need to be shown up as the hateful, murderous and profoundly dangerous people they are, like the Nazis and Communists before them.
Events like this show them in their true colours – Love Life is right. The lesson from this should be that these “extremists” and their apologists have to be opposed – not to reward their intimidation with acquiescence.
You may know some history deLeon, appeasement has rarely been an effective strategy.
First ammendment:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
I guess that includes Muslims are allowed to use the Quran but unfortunately also means the inbreed rightwinged christian fundamentalist in US which is as big threat to the world as the poor people of Afghanistan
These two couple of idiots must revised what they have been read and studied in the Holy Bible.
Jesuschrist never teaches to hate other peoples with different ideas , cultures or religions. We must feel and show love and comprehension to all the people, as our God and Lord showed, when he died for our sins in the cross.
We must respect a book as the Koran, in the same way we ask the muslims respect to our holy Bible.
What they will say now to the relatives of the victims?
I think that their preaches aren´t going to be aproved by the Lord.
Mr Sapp – you have a different God to my God. Do you recognise yourself in the violent mob of Masar-i-Sharif?
I DISAGREE HUGO. EVEN THE “HOLY BIBLE” IS JUST A BOOK. DOES THAT MEAN ILLITERATE PEOPLE ARE BANNED FROM HEAVEN UNLESS THEY BELIEVE THE READINGS FROM SOME SELF APPOINTED BOOK READER?
I DOUBT THAT LITERACY IS A PRE-REQUISITE TO ENTRY INTO HEAVEN. IN FACT, I DON’T BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD BE MURDERED FOR BURNING A BIBLE. I’D GUESS GOD WOULD HAVE A LAUGH AT IT. ONE DOESN’T NEED BOOKS TO BE A GOOD TOLERANT AND FORGIVING PERSON.
IT’S FORGIVING TOLERANCE VERSUS UNFORGIVING INTOLERANCE.
THAT, I BELIEVE, IS THE POINT THAT IS IN THE DOCK HERE. I’M WILLING TO FIGHT AGAINST UNFORGIVING INTOLERANCE OF ANY KIND TOWARDS ANYONE. AREN’T YOU?
Mr.Jones/Mr.Sapp I hope you can live with the blood of the people you killed. You are a couple of low life who are only interested in publicity.
These two stupid men have killed these inocent people by burning the Koran. These men cannot sit back and say its just paper when they knew the effect of their actions would insite actions in retaliation. They are not men of god they are just stupid and need to see their names in print once again.I hope that they pay for the deaths of these innocent people. They might not have been there when these people where killed but are responsible for the deaths. God help them because they will surely burn in hell…
A human life is sacred, it does not matter what religion/ideology a person follows. Killing one individual means killing the whole humanity itself
@Lian M
“Now it doesn’t actually matter what the Quran/Koran actually says, what matters in practice is that the same people inciting the murders in Afghanistan are telling us it teaches that women should be uneducated secluded domestic slaves, that gays should be stoned to death, that blasphemers and apostates should be executed, and that the lives of unbelievers are worthless”
Few things to point out
1) It does matter what the Quran says, when it completely contradicts what these individuals are doing.
2) Which brings to the second point, any individual Muslim/non-Muslim kills anyone else simply because of difference of religion or even kill someone for actions of another is cold blooded murder. No one has a right to enforce anything on to any individual whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. People have the right to believe in what ever they want. However, bad mouthing or disgracing another’s ideology then, Muslim/Non-Muslim should be judged accordingly. Freedom of speech of is all good until it leads to openly ridiculing culture/ideology/religion its nothing more than leading to a problem on either side.Further more often times what is said in rage and anger is not true and made up stories. Why should anyone resort to such an action?
2) The topic of capital punishment in Islam is not as simple as saying “A blasphemer/apostate if found are killed”. There is a long check list of conditions which are to be met before capital punishment is enforced. One of which conditions is there has to be absolute proof, circumstantial evidence if over thrown. In places like Afghanistan, there is no overseeing authority who decides what proofs are met. Because of power struggle, illiteracy and not to mention the life conditions, people are very quick to pass judgment with hardly any proof to get rid of people they consider weeds for their society.
3) Its sad that many Muslims do not treat Women correctly. Women in Islamic law are entitled to do what ever they want, in fact Islam was the first of its kind to actually give the woman the right to own property and among many other rights which have long been forgotten or abused.
Like I said, get a grip.
Katie: “These two stupid men have killed these inocent people by burning the Koran”
Pat: “Mr.Jones/Mr.Sapp I hope you can live with the blood of the people you killed”
No no no. Some people were offended by a book they like being burned in a distant country by a stranger so they decided to murder another unassociated stranger. Maybe the Quran doesn’t require them to do that, and they are rejecting its message of peace. Their fault. Or maybe the Quran does require them to do that, in which case it is an evil book and burning it sends an important message. Either way we should be worried whether there are people like that here as well as there and what we are going to do about it.
Maybe Jones and Sapp are as intolerant as these murderers and are cynical self-publicists but that is not the point.
So you not think that Mr Sapp/Mr Jones knew that burning “the Book” would have a consequence. My concern is that they knew what they were doing and that it would have an effect. There are ways and means of getting a message across without doing extreme things that will cause hurt to another human being. I would be offended if someone burnt our bible in protest. Mr Sapp/Mr Jones are very lucky that they live in a democratic country because if they didn’t they would have more to worry about than a few concerned comments on a website. When push comes to shove the issue is THE BURNING OF THE KORAN RESULTED IN THE DEATH OF INNOCENT PEOPLE…. I hope that they can live with that. I know that I could not.
Katie it’s a tough call.
I suppose I’m writing so much because I see so much anger at two idiots, maybe they are, burning a book and very little apparent anger at the people who wantonly killed those who were only there to help them.
Suppose we follow Love Life’s advice and burn a thousand Korans – if the response is to murder 7000 innocents, at what point do we stop blaming ourselves who have committed no violence at all
(OK we can debate about colonialism, Iraq etcetera and there are many fair points but these are political) and start blaming the people whose attitude is responsible?
After all this is only the tip of the iceberg of religiously motivated violence – it gets attention here because it is directed against outsiders, normally it’s a tool of oppression within these societies.
These 2 fools, that is what they are as there is nothing “holy” about them never stopped to think about the one thing that was important. They would be just as horribly upset if someone had burned the Bible. Sorry folks, but the Bible is just as or no more holy than the Koran. It is filled with just as much hate and has just as many verses that do nothing but justify man’s own bad behavior by disguising it as the word of “God” (I use quotations because God is too big to have said any of that petty hateful crap!)
Those of you who would defend the fools are fools yourselves because you are hypocrites.
It is time that we looked at ourselves, our own values & beliefs and our own “holy” text before we start condemning others. Antics like those of these fools do absolutely nothing to make the world one bit better.
The reason why I condemn the two US exhibitionists is because we are living in a country where most are educated, not seeing killing every day, are well fed, many have travelled and our contry and national identity has not been under attack and invasion by foreigners for many decades. The mob in afghanistan is the opposite, and so much more susceptible to demagogues. They just see us as christians, not really separate groupings. The attacks on all the secular human rights workers there is inexcusable. I feel very sad about it. We can help what goes on here, however. That is why I think people are focussing of those two losers. Here anyone can say they are a preacher, set up a church, say god says this and that, even to abusing young girls, and they will get a following. God will judge them for their false pride. They are traitors, not patriots, and show America in a primitive and hateful light. They provide ammunition for our enemies abroad. They should be prosecuted for a hate crime. A book is not just papers, that is the most reductionist position that is not willing to understand or even admit the factors at play. So the people who were murdered were going to die anyway, and they knew they were taking risks, I can also be reductionist — these situations are admittedly not easy to accept, but we need to figure out what we can do. The afghan govt also needs to get to that governor and have him get to those people to determine how things got to that place, and for them to figure out their true self interest. If the community leaders and women think that the UN is there to manipulate them and undermine them, then maybe the UN should leave. If they were thugs, then they need to be exposed for being against the long term community interests
i would said the faults was on the 2 idiote pastor cause what they did was religion discrimination. everybody know that taliban still be round in afghan waiting for thing like this happen so they can go around (ofcouse in civilian outlook)and telling ppl to protest(which is afghan ppl not fully educated cau
se their country still recover)then use the oppotunities to kill the un officer
First of all SAPP/Jones are two idiots. But even though they burned my Holy book, the Holy Quran I do not believe that their actions should require a violent response.
Maybe I’m the only sane Muslim around who thinks that as a Muslim, I have not been injured. It is God to whom these two blithering idiots will be accountable to on DOJ. They burnt his word.
The insane mob in Afghanistan were illiterate fools who became murderous bastards because they were aroused by fiery preachers after Friday Prayers to attack the only unfortunate non-Muslims in Mazar-i-Sharif, the UN.
If you burn the Holy Quran or abuse Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that does not give Muslims the right to kill you or sentence you to death via so-called blasphemy laws like in Pakistan. Muslims need to take a leaf from Jesus Christ and ‘turn the other cheek’ when someone gives them offense, be it a cartoon, The Satanic Verses, or Quran burning. The actions of the Muslims have been inexcuseable. I’m so pissed off to be associated with these 7th century fanatics by virtue of the accident of my birth.
Live Free or Die!
Dear Terry & Wayne,
Sleep well tonight knowing that you have caused the death of 12 innocent human rights activists!
questi due sono CEREBROLESI!!!
Do you think Jesus would burn the Koran? Really?
The attitude of these 2 “preachers” flies in the face of everything that Jesus taught.
Do they really believe in what Jesus taught? Or are they trying to make a name for themselves?
Surely a corresponding reprisal or response would be for the Afgan mob to burn a bible? That would seem the most sensible retort.
By turning on and killing (what looks like the only non-muslims around), this only demonstrated what people like Iain M are warning against. One can only make excuses so far.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not condone the actions of these two idiots. They show the world everything that right wing America is capable of, thus making the world a dangerous place.
The problem is, the islamist want to enforce their own warped ideologies and dogma on everyone else, or kill them.
Lastly, most of the people writing in here, seem to place the catalyst as the burning of the Koran/Quran. They are clearly missing the point that the two right wingers were already retorting to a previous incident – 911. Its like saying the fight started when he punched me back.
ALL religion (bar none) is false, and self serving. Man made instruments to get the masses behaving in a certain way.
Regards
The Grim Reaper
Ps. If we give in to the islamist now, where do you draw the line? Was Salman Rushdie deserving of the response? The Danish cartoonist, anyone?
I am ashamed to call myself a christian when this is what is done in “whos?” name?
Your actions have caused the death of innocent people trying to help the people of Afhganistan
Among a citizen of my country Sweden.
Shame on you !!!!! You just gave them an excuse to kill more….
Takes just one brainwashed religious nut to start things like this. But it’s followed by more brainwashed nuts. While those in afghanistan have bad schools, pastors in the US should know better. Like that picture says: I AM DISSAPPOINT
@ The Grim Reaper
It’s hard not to blame the two pastors. They knew it would cause a violent reaction. Whether that reaction is warranted or not is beside the point. (I think it’s absolutely wrong and barbaric, btw. The muslims I know are nothing like that).
If you knew, by taking a dump in your neighbour’s yard, it would anger him and cause him to beat his wife, would you still do it? (Yes, not entirely logical, but it’s to illustrate a point).
Burning 1000 Korans would not have changed their minds. Just like flying a plane into a building didn’t make the US more tolerant of Islam.
Interesting you brought up 911. I think the US already hit back (incidentally, at a completely different person). And twice too — Afghanistan and Iraq. That was over 10 years, and tens of thousands of lives ago. Now surely that’s enough bloodshed?
If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
He’d be gunned down cold by the C.I.A.
Oh, the lights that now burn brightest behind stained glass
Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart
But God didn’t build himself that throne
God doesn’t live in Israel or Rome
God doesn’t belong to the yankee dollar
God doesn’t plant the bombs for Hezbollah
God doesn’t even go to church
And God won’t send us down to Allah to burn
No, God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it’s sown
IMHO:
People such as Wayne Sapp or Terry Jones do not have a God.
They are serving their own “god” supporting their weak egos to become stronger through weak followers they might have.
These are the persons, who are making relatives in peaceful religions (Islamic and Christians, sharing the same “old book”) fighting against each others.
When Taliban or Al-Quida are blamed doing crimes, these persons initiate similar crimes via more indirect approach. And all of them make against the teachings!
If there is a hell, these people know where they will be finding themselves in their personal afterlife!
All of these actions are STRICTLY against any Christian values they claim to represent!
The worst part of the story is that these people know what they are doing, and still they act like this.
I truly hope that hell exists as there is a group of people that could use as their personal “playing ground”.
And I am NOT supporting attack against UN because of the actions of these irresponsible individuals! Still, they knew that something like this would happen! I do not burn Qurans/Korans or Bibles or Torahs or US flags or anything, but suddenly I do understand how stupid certain individuals can be!
Read the Bible or any other significant holy book! Read and implement it without “traps” or “back-doors” in Your minds! Even non-believers will find a code of values that is worth of being followed even if the text is somewhat old-fashioned for our days.
Suppose, just for a minute, that there is no God and religion is a crap invention from imagination of humankind.
Then, take another look at this whole story.
People being killed because they argue over the existence of nothing and who has the best interpretation of ‘His’ rules.
The beauty of the Constitution, though it’s NOT written (though I believe it should be) is that there is also a freedom FROM religion. I wish people would recognize that fact and leave it the hell off the airwaves.
Chris Rock, though I don’t really appreciate his humor, said it best in the film “Dogma”. “Jesus Christ wasn’t out to start a religion. He just had an idea. Someone took that idea and turned it into a religion”. (I’m paraphrasing here, but you get the idea.)
Now, for what it’s worth, in as much as the Islamic are being persecuted now, let’s take a look at the Christian. How many – waaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day (like ten centuries ago) – were sent to their deaths or sent to kill in the name of “god”, BY THE LEADERSHIP OF THE CHURCH OF THE DAY? I mean the crusades. A senseless series of holy wars that really got nowhere fast.
Maybe if more people took to heart the idea of the late, great George Carlin, we’d have a lot less of this BS and a lot more cooperation in the world:
*After running through the ten commandments and linking the last seven to “thou shalt not covet”…* (again paraphrasing)
“I think we should get rid of the BS and just limit ourselves to TWO commandments. First, thou shalt not covet. That’ll cover everything down the lines. And finally the second and most important… KEEP THY RELIGION TO THY SELF.”
Once again, SHAME ON ISLAM. When Afghans burned copies of the bible and the American flag a few months ago, NOBODY in America went around killing Muslims. Yes, these pastors should not have done this. But- MORE shameful and MORE despicable is the actions of the Muslim world when events like this tae place. Again I say, SHAME ON ISLAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ISLAM killed the UN workers, not the pastors burning a Koran. Just like CHRISTIANITY ‘would have killed’ Muslims if Christian/Americans were as psychotic, which they proved NOT TO BE by not giving a *#&% when Afghans were burning the bible. People that blame this on the pastors are making excuses for MURDER.
Those “Pastors” are utter and complete Jackasses. The press never should have given them one ounce of publicity. They will surely rot in hell, the pastors that is.
In light of the events in the last few months (years) in the Mid-East, the action of this “American holy man” is the equivalent of yelling “fire” in a crowded theater… the person doing it knows destruction and death will follow. Last I heard, “inciting a riot” is not necessarily legal. I don’t understand how these people can be so willfully ignorant, as they claim to be, and not take responsibility for their actions.
Just because it was not their neighbor that got caught in the “stampede” does not make them less responsible for the outcome.
While it is true that Islam is an evil religion (the only religion which treats women like animals), this pastor shouldn’t have burnt the demon-inspired book called the Quran. This will only ignite terrorist attacks against America and American interests overseas.
They knew what they would ignite with their act. They seem to have the same goal as many before them, to empower them self by using religion to polarize the world. I can’t recognize Christianity as I learned to know it in the words and actions of Sapp and Jones, and not the American spirit either.
For the rest of the world it does not matter, freedom of speech or not. As long as you don’t fight the weed it will look like your field of gold is being taken over by people like Sapp and Jones. Do you want them to be your ambassadors to the world?
So, why do I care? Just because yesterday one of our Norwegian officers in Afghanistan paid the price for Sapp and Jones “brave” act….
Sapp and Jones: Next time show some real guts and do it in Kabul, and not on camera hiding somewhere out in the sticks!
JK the (peaceful) Viking
Its a shame you have spread your ignorance to your children. Lets hope they are not harmed in wave of problems you have caused. Obviously you have no idea what pot you have just stirred up. These people don’t care, do you not understand that, they will decapitate your kids in front of you and laugh as they hand you their head. you asshole.
Wayne Sapp you will die
Both of you are complete idiots!!! I am a saint of God and do not believe in other religions, but it is not for me to judge anyone. That is left up to God Himself. You should feel the guilt of the lives lost in the attack yesterday. No, you did not kill them with your own hands, but your actions definitely led to the attack.
Just a note to some of the folks hugging their bible while looking down their noses at the rest of humanity; there are areas of the United States where there are plenty of people who would not hesitate to kill you if you were to burn the bible. These are the same people exhorted by their preachers to beat the hell out of their wives if they do not “submit.” I’ve lived in those areas and I know this for fact. Muslim terrorists may outnumber Christian terrorists but don’t ever forget that we absolutely do have Christian terrorists.
These two idiots are guilty of murder as they knew of the reaction that would occur. I almost wish a world court would convict them and sentence them to life in Afghanistan. It would be a short one.
I bet the two pastors wack off to their white women getting banged by black men. That is how pathetic they are.
These Christian Americans are either destructive ignorant fanatics or selfish publicity seeking morons. What kind of legal trial was this? Was the Quran book even tried by a jury of its peers? (Little humor there) You cannot just call the destruction of property an act of freedom of speech or an inalienable right. What a bunch of bovine waste! These hypocritical idiots even think of what their actions would cause to innocent people during this sensitive time? What kind of a Christian would say he agrees not to commit such an act to the United States president and then justifies that lie by saying he gave the Islamic people their chance to respond? I am giving up on Christianity if this is the kind of insensitive ethics they support. I don’t know if I will burn a bible since that would be reenacting the same stupid act but I will gather them up and put them in either the Goodwill box or the trash. Who needs a god (purposely lower case) who promotes any act against a race or creed of people? Freedom of speech is not about destruction or downing a population but speaking your point of view with intelligence and thoughtful words. Maybe some just lack the education or the capability of language and have to express themselves with child like actions.
It’s sad that these two aren’t aware of the true meanings of the Bible. These two are just a bunch of arian/nazi who think of themselfs as of gods, but in fact they are only two pitiful brain damaged beings.
It’s also sad, that no higher authority is truly aware of the meaning of their act and does nothing to stop them.
They should be sent in a muslim country to live there and to be convicted by the laws of The Holy Qur’?n for irtid?d (Apostasy) by witch the blastfemy is punishable by death.
Insha’Allah.
Where were you clowns when fine Americans burned copies of the Constitution? While these preachers did it for the publicity, we have goobers in the Congress who whined when the Constitution (which states that we have religious freedom, a concept missing in Afganistan and the the Muslim world), perhaps because the words were too long and complicated for their simple little minds.
I think we need to seriously consider some limitations on our Freedom of Speech. I never thought I’d believe that but these dumbasses should not have the right to burn a book considered holy — no matter how ridiculous I may feel the whole “god-concept” is.
I also think Holocaust denial should be a crime.
Other than those two things, I’m for Free Speech!
who do we blame for the killing? not the muslim extremist? its just a book, you can print another, and you can still follow your religion. who cares what some loon in another part of the world does?
The UN workers were killed by Radical Extremists, period! The mentally challenged thought process of drawing a cartoon of Mohammad or burning a book, hence creating the justification of killing someone is one with a warped mind. If this would have been a bible and someone killed 6 people in America they would be labeled a domestic terrorist, hunted down and given an injection at the applause of most Americans. But hey, burn an American flag, I guess that’s okay to some too….
to Allen:
The UN workers were killed by muslims who are sick and tired of egomaniac American rednecks who think that muslims are to be blamed for everything from Adam&Eve till now.
to blamewho:
Its not “just a book” and you can’t print another because it’s not about that book, but about the idea that Americans can do whatever they want whenever they want.
God will judge you for your self righteous acts just as he will judge islamic extremist for self righteous acts. You put Christian mission activity around the globe in peril. Congratulations on your stupidity.
“While it is true that Islam is an evil religion (the only religion which treats women like animals)”
Women have far more superior rights in Islam than men. Ask millions of growing women converts to Islam.
If this was confirmed to Islam, then why is Wal-Mart in court for paying women more than men.
Two of the leaders of Bangladesh are women. Current prime minister, Home minister, Foreign minister are all women.
It is a country of 85-90% Muslims! Most subjugation of women results from ignorant cultural traditions. It is not Islam. Women died to get the vote in the West. Black people died to use the same toilets as white, only few decades ago. In good old bible bashing Christ following neighbor loving southern states.
Don’t learn your Islam from Fox and the T-Party. Learn before you burn.
Same old funny discussion from Liberals, Muslims and few ignorant people..
I thought real hard before responding. I really did. I still cannot understand why some are still defending the muslim mob.
@Voice of Reason has attempted to equate the koran burning with shouting fire in a crowded theatre, and sarcastically stated that last he heard this was illegal. Point of correction, one should not equate the two. The theatre goers panic of losing their own LIVES is the danger that causes them to act in a dangerous way. The muslim mob’s own lives were never threatened by the actions in the US. That they chose to act in this fashion is exactly what many of us has been saying. They could resorted to any number responces. They CHOSE to kill. Q: Why did they not merely burn a bible in response? A: Because in Islam killing an unbeliever is expected.
@The Flipside made a slightly better argument, though still flawed, IMHO. Read my posting. I did not say the pastors were blameless anywhere. What I questioned was the response by the muslims. You attempted an analagy, and I will play along. If I know that he will kill his wife for such a trivial reason, I would demand he gets help. Until then, I’ll try and not do too much to “endanger” her life. The problem with Islam, is that there is no sign of the muslims seeking help. On the contrary, they’re getting more fanatic (if that is possible). Going back to your analogy, what if your garden offended him, or your car, or clothes? Where do you draw the line at “saving” his wife, all because of his extremism?
As I said before, all religion is man made, thus flawed. However, Christianity is so much a better alternative because the overall premise is based on love. Islam on the other hand is all about hate, kill, etc. (Yeah, I can see the responses already).
Look at the major conflicts around the world and tell me what is the common denominator. Almost without exception its muslims. From Russian extremism bombing airports, schools, playhouses, to chinese unrest, the Bali bombings, hotel bombings in Delhi and Mumbai, train bombings in Spain, bus bombings in London, even flying planes into buildings. The Russians, Chinese, Indians, Australians, US, UK et al cannot all be at fault, and the muslims blameless.
As I said before. We give in now, then where do you draw the line?
Regards
The Grim Reaper
Ps. We’re probably boring everyone with our argument. If either of you want to debate this further, let me know. I’ll set up a temporary chat room.
When reading these opinions it feels that we are living in a different planet hear in Northern Europe. Both actions (Pastors burning the Koran and Afghan people killing innocent UN workers) don’t fit to my view of life.
Islam culture in Afghanistan is full of hate and violence but so is the American culture of fanatic Christianity also very strange.
-Tommi Linden, Finland
Dear all
First, I’m a Muslim woman and from this point I’d like to make this clear:
– I’m a muslim woman and very happy in my life!
@RG your statement of “While it is true that Islam is an evil religion (the only religion which treats women like animals)”
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH IT, at the end of my posting you’ll see my point, but first let me state those imp. points:
– ONE: It was horrendously wrong for those murders to occur:(Yes, it was murder) those UN workers. Those workers had NOTHING to do with it! And please there is no INSTRUCTION in the quran that instructs Muslims to kill those who are peacfully working. Islam and Quran and the last prophet teaching is innocent of this
–>So please don’t pin the actions of those misguided Muslims in Afghanistan on the Quran and Islamic faith
SECOND: AND this might be Shocking to those two pastors and generally Christians who are not Familiar with the Quran:
– Do you know that the Holy Quran mentions (Prophet Jesus) 25 times through stating Prophet Jesus story and life morals?
– How about this: Prophet Muhammed is mentioned only 5 times!–>The Quran mentions Prophet Jesus as a noble Prophet and we as Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammed is the “last Prophet” not the “only prophet” infact the Quran respectfully mentions all the prophets: Adam, Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Joseph…”
– So my question to the Pastors is: How do you feel about burning a book that refers to Prophet Jesus (The Virgin Mary is respectfully mentioned too) 25 times???????!!!!!!!!!
–Another question..How do you feel about the consequence of your wrong actions! Atleast two men killed because of your so-called “barbeque”
–>Have you no mind!! or worse have you no conscience!!
Ladies & Gentlemen:
Quit learning through TV and so-called “Pastors” or even from
“so-called Muslims”..
As you can see I can also judge Christianity wrongly based on those “Christian Pastors” actions..
-Please open your heart and eyes:
Refer to the sources w/an honest attempt at understanding & you will be granted “noor” ..(Noor means “enlightnment in Arabic”)
==>
Now as a Muslim woman, let me set the record straight once and for all:
– I’m happy with my life (Not oppressed in any way)
– Im 27 Not married yet But no-once can force me into this, because there is no Islamic instruction that can force an woman to be forced into marriage: infact it’s my right to accept an offer or decline it.
(For those “forced marriages stories/cases” it’s related to CULTURE/WRONG TRADITIONS, not ISLAM
–>I’m a deep follower of my religion and NO I’m NOT “treated as an animal
– I’m 27 and NOT MARRIED : There is no Islamic obligation from the Quran or from our blessed Prophet to be forced into marriage unless I aggree to this.
–>For those forced marriages stories, this is due to wrong cultures/ traditions that is not in ISLAM
– Yes, I wear the HIJAB and feel liberated and PROUD of this!
One: I’m doing this for God sake not for my brother or father or future husband. Reason: My pride in maintaining my modesty and dignity is my daily inspiration!
–>For those who question this more: Isn’t the Blessed Virgin Mary always shown wearing a veil in all her photos? Why can’t I be like her in maintaining myself?
– I’ve graduated with Bachelor in Computer Science & now pursuing a Master in Project Management..Struggling like any young person in my time..with work..(Yes I work), studying, etc.., balance of a social life and never do I aim to kill those who disagree with me in religion, language etc..
The bottom line:
I feel very thankful for my state and condition
* My last message are to two parties:
First: Those who call themselves “Muslims” and are only misguided: STOP acting based on your whims and citing Islam for this
Second, for those who are unclear about Islam, please try to read the sources: Quran and Prophet Hadiths (Prophet sayings, actions were all recorded by the early Muslims and preserved for us to learn from)
These folks were commissioned by a sanctioning body, whatever “church” that is obviously condoned the actions: They failed to threated to pull their commission/license, and they have not pulled their licenses.What “church” is that? Why aren’t we hearing what religion sanctioned them?
For burning the Holy Qor’an,Wayne Sapp WILL go to hell sucking 50000 dicks. I hope Islam will see you and burn you to ashes.
I’ve been reading a lot of Christopher Hitchens lately — I hope he beats his cancer — and it’s made me appreciate the anti-theist perspective a great deal more.
If your religion offers no evidence, it can be dismissed without evidence!